Looking to add a sump - Frag Outpost Forums - Coral Propagation and Reef Aquarium Forums

EvilTwin · 03-19-2006, 12:20 PM

I am now starting to look to put together a sump using an overflow box. I don't want to spend a fortune, I just want someplace I can put my skimmer and heater. My skimmer gives off a ton of microbubbles and it can be very finicky to adjust. The skimmer is a seaclone 150 and while it get's panned all the time it does seem to pull out a lot of skimmate when it's adjusted right. So, I am looking for suggestions. I don't mind buying a commercially made pump, as I'm not really in the mood to be building my own right now. I just want domething inexpensive that works well. I need an overflow box as well. Suggestions???

FragOutpost · 03-19-2006, 01:01 PM

A trip to the local walmart or target should yield a wide variety of rubbermaid containers that work well as a cheap fast sump if you are not concerned with asthetics and just need a place to drop in a heater and skimmer. For a used overflow check your local stores, the newspaper, or try some of the local aquarium societies near you. If all else fails you could try ebay for an overflow or pump. When plumbing your return pump skip the flexible tubing and use at least 3/4" PVC and hard plumb everything in with a ball or gate valve to control the flow if necessary. The flexible tubing cuts down on the flow a lot.

EvilTwin · 03-19-2006, 01:15 PM

I'm gonna hang out in the chatroom if anyone wants to talk with me about sumps. I'm pretty sure I know what I need but want to discuss the plumbing options.

FragOutpost · 03-19-2006, 01:18 PM

Just fired up the laptop.

EvilTwin · 03-20-2006, 06:18 PM

Well, I am really lost with all this talk of skimmers, sumps overflows, etc. Just TMI for me to absorb in a day. Our chat helped yesterday but I am now having trouble figuring out what direction I want to go.

After trying to clean my Seaclone 150 skimmer yesterday, it started to leak at the seal in the base where the j-tube connects. I figure it's time to pony up for a much better rated skimmer. I've decided I want an Aqua C, but do I go with the HOT Remora or the sump Urchin model? Getting a sump model requires the additional complexity and expense of adding a sump and overflow and the perils that come with that. A HOT model will replace my current one but has it's own issues on my tank.

I have a canopy on my tank. It's nice, makes the tank look more like furniture and I've already bought it, so I'd like to keep using it. Wife would be mad if I don't. The problem with the canopy is that the current skimmer I have is so tall that the canopy brace in the rear actually rests on to pof the collection cup. I must remove the canopy to empty the cup. I only have 5 inches of clearance between the top edge of the tank and the underside of the canopy. The other factor is noise. Buying a good HOT skimmer like the Remora means I won't be able to use it in a sump later on.

Checking the sump route, I was able to get a storage container of 24x17x15 into the openining in the stand. It was 18+ gallons in size. Is this enough? This would also require getting an overflow box. Not a big deal but I want to get a good one. Recommendations here? Also, when I look at a skimmer to put underneath, I need to be wary of the skimmer height. Since the stand has drawers, there isn't much more room obove the door height.

Another option that my wife suggested was this: since the majority of the wall behind the tank covers open space in my unfinished basement area, I could run the pipes through the wall to another stand set up back there for the sump. Not a bad idea but I'd be worried about water contamination, since I do various other things like sawing and such back there. I would still have to worry about the overflow box, too. Are there any considerations if I wanted to build a nice refugium/sump back there and put it on a stand? how high musthe stand be/not be?

My head hurts thinking about all of this.

Peterock · 03-20-2006, 07:02 PM

if you are looking to add a sump look at my post peterock 90 gallon i am using a 40 gallon tank that i glued some baffels into so the water flows the way a $300 sump or fuge would. if you go this rought you can space them out to acoumadite any and all equipment that you need to add.

FragOutpost · 03-20-2006, 08:35 PM

A used aquarium with some baffles siliconed in would work great too if you could fit it under your stand. Another option could be to get two 10 or 15 gallon tanks and get them drilled and add some bulkheadsto connect the two. That would easily fit under the stand and would provide 2 chambers.

I've never used the aqua c skimmers so I can not comment on them. If you do decide to get another skimmer then get one a little bigger than what you think you need. You can't skim enough!

The 18 gallon storage container should work just fine. You might have a height problem with it though. Most overflow boxes are the same. You pretty much have two types, the u-tube type and the weir type. The weir type is better but less common and usually more expensive.

The best option would be to put the sump in the other room. That would solve all of your space concerns and provide much more flexibility in your options. Do you just do woodwork in the other room or do you do a lot of painting or staining or anything that would produce airborne chemicals?
The water level in the sump should be a minimum of 6-12 inches below the drain bulkhead on the overflow.

EvilTwin · 03-20-2006, 09:46 PM

I don't usually do a bunch of woodworking, and chemical use is not a constant thing. I now do more fish related stuff back there than anything else. It's really just my workshop/storage area. Doing this behind the wall would leave me with a LOT of flexibility with the sump design, and probably allow a fuge as well.

Damn this is gonna get expensive.

I checked with Aqua C about their remora HOT skimmers. According to them, you need 6.5 inches of clearance from the top of the tank. I will only have 5 with the canopy in place. In addition they say add another 4 inches for cup removal, though I could use a cup with a drain to a bottle. But because of the clearance issue, this is prolly not an option.

If I want to do the behind-the-wall sump option, I need to know if my tank will be OK without a skimmer for a bit. Since my seaclone is leaking it is currently off the tank. I suppose I could try and get a new o-ring to seal it up.

I would really like to get a sump that is something like this:
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/s...p_model_j.html

Or maybe this:
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/s...p_model_e.html

FragOutpost · 03-20-2006, 10:50 PM

Lowes and Home Depot sell various sizes of o-rings. Just take your old one with you to match it. If you have to run skimmerless for a little while then you might want to increase your water changes. Your sps corals will probably not like not having a skimmer but everything else should be fine for a little while.

Have you checked ebay for used sumps?
http://cgi.ebay.com/150-Gallon-Aquar... QcmdZViewItem

EvilTwin · 03-21-2006, 07:38 AM

My single SPS coral seems to be the champ in this case. Xenia looks less than enthusiastic about pulsing and the gorg is probably a goner. My button polyp seems just as happy as ever and the yellow polyps are making a comeback, as long as the snails stop lawnmowering them. I'll head to HD at lunch today to find an o-ring. At least if I get this skimmer on again, it will buy me some time to really plan out my whole sump issue.

EvilTwin · 03-21-2006, 08:08 AM

Also, for anyone interested in protein skimmer info, here is a link to the US patent office website for the patent filed by Aqua C for their Remora series. It makes for good reading if you are interested in the technology and theory behind how it all works.

FragOutpost · 03-21-2006, 01:50 PM

I would definitely get the o-ring for the skimmer. That way you at least have something running until you can get the sump and new skimmer set up. Thanks for the link on the skimmer patent. It makes for an interesting read!

D12monkey · 03-22-2006, 10:42 AM

Have you tought about the Jebo Skimmers? I have one and it's out preforms most of the other skimmers I've seen. My LFS has one on their 500 Gal display tank along with a few other skimmer and he swears that it pulls out more skimate than the others. The best part is that it only costs about $30 on Ebay.

EvilTwin · 03-23-2006, 12:03 PM

I've heard mixed reviews on Jebo skimmers. I am usually one to believe with my own eyes, so I try not to judge too much by what others say. That doesn't mean I won't take good advice.

While at the LFS last night, they had in stock the Marineland Tidepool S.O.S. overflow box I had been looking at, so I bought it. It was only a few bucks more than if I had purchased online, and I'm supporting a local retailer. I've barely unpacked it so far. The instructions are a little confusing as they really focus on installing this system with a Tidepool filter/sump. I was tempted to buy one of these but they are pretty expensive for what you get.

Instructions are here:
http://marineland.com/products/manua...ool_manual.pdf

I now need to figure out the sump. The wife has agreed to let me put holes in the wall and place the pump in the unfinished area of the basement, on the other side of the wall behind the tank. I have a roughly 4 foot area there where I could put a stand of some kind and the sump. Since I am in need of a shelf for aquarium stuff, I figure the sump can go down low and a top shelf can be used for a storage shelf. I just need the top shelf high enough to accomodate a tall skimmer. I like the idea of a refugium built into the sump so I want this included. I have been looking at all of Mark Melev's designs. Still deciding.

FragOutpost · 03-23-2006, 08:29 PM

Once you remove all of the nitrifying material from the tidepool sump you are basically left with a container of water. I think your money is better spent investing in one of the models you pointed out on melevs site. Or get a used glass aquarium and silicone some baffles in.

EvilTwin · 03-23-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FragOutpost

Once you remove all of the nitrifying material from the tidepool sump you are basically left with a container of water. I think your money is better spent investing in one of the models you pointed out on melevs site. Or get a used glass aquarium and silicone some baffles in.

Agreed. They just make it look real easy in the book if you use all of their stuff. Tricky, huh?

FragOutpost · 03-24-2006, 05:55 PM

The tidepool would be great in a FOWLR.
Have you come any closer to making a decision? I'm sure it is a difficult choice being that there are so many options available to you.

EvilTwin · 03-25-2006, 08:31 AM

I have not ultimately decided about the sump. I played around with the overflow assembly and it took me a while to figure out how the thing was going to get primed. I think this will be a nice overflow. I'm thinking about building my oven sump from acrylic using one of Melev's designs. I'm adding my new 40lbs of LR to the tank today now that it is done curing. Sump is next.