just getting started - Page 3 - Frag Outpost Forums - Coral Propagation and Reef Aquarium Forums

littlemutt · 10-31-2005, 08:37 PM

tried what you suggested, set the pics at 500x330 pixels and am attaching again just to see if it's better.

D12monkey · 10-31-2005, 09:02 PM

LOL Hey frag with those explinations, who needs to mention anything else.

As for the RO units. I purchased mine a year ago from Ebay for $135 (shipping included) and it's a 7 stage both RO and DI filter. Works like a charm still... Haven't replaced a single thing on it, yet. I have a TDS meter and it's reading execptable low still. Besides my tap water isn't too bad, but won't used that.

Nice photos by the way. Love that camera... Too bad I'm a Canon Junky...

D12monkey · 10-31-2005, 09:05 PM

Nice start...

littlemutt · 11-09-2005, 02:50 AM

i retested my tanks and the readings are:

ph - 8.2-8.3
ammonia - 0
nitrates - 0
nitrites - 0

does this mean my tanks are cylced or will it still spike up and down for awhile?

i went to local lfs, he didn't have to much but i got 4 bumble bee snails and 2 hermits, it's been about 4 days now and they seem to be doing well so far. one of the hermits doesn't move around much, not sure if that means anything. i thought they would stay on the bottom sifting thru the sand which they did at first, but once they climbed up on the rocks they won't come off. should i be feeding them? i bought a package of dried marine algae and when i first put them in the tank i put a small sheet in a veggie clip on the bottom of tank and they imediately devoured the whole thing. is that enough to keep them going? the snails stay mostly on the rocks moving all over them, i hope they get enough food that way.

i removed as much of that long brown algae as i could and it doesn't seem to be growing back, there is some green algae growing on the glass but it's not enough to be a problem. seems like everyday i see something new, these flat worms with red heads and gray bodies and lots of legs, are they bristleworms? there are lots of these little grey things that run in and out of the rock, they seem to be increasing in numbers. they have a grey almost armor plated looking bodies with a number of legs and move very quickly - good guys i hope. there are numerous little plants starting to grow which i am trying to get pics of . i'll try to post those on here in the next couple of days. i assume that that is a good sign.

can i start adding some frags at this point or is it best to wait awhile longer? or fish for that matter but i was going to hold off on them til i was sure everything was ok. thanks for the help, i know this is basic stuff for you guys .

FragOutpost · 11-11-2005, 09:49 AM

Hello littlemutt,
When all of your readings say zero then that usually means that the tank is cycled. The brown algae should just be a phase of the tank and it will not likely come back as long as you keep up with the regular maintenance. The green algae that grows on the glass will probably need weekly cleanings. Even the most established tanks will grow this green algae on the glass.

As for feeding the hermit crabs, I usually don't directly feed them. They will get any scraps that the fish might have missed.

The red and grey worms sound like bristleworms. Some people consider them as a nusciance but I feel that they are very effective scavengers. Usually if you see them eating something then it was probably already dead.

The grey armor plated creatures you mentioned are probably amphipods and are a sign of a healthy tank. These are very desirable critters to have. When you add fish to your tank you will probably see the amphipods more at night as many fish will eat these.

Since all of your levels read zero then you should be ready to begin adding fish and frags. Just take it slow and only add one or two things at a time. It is better to add any non aggressive fish first and let them settle in. If you add any territorial fish first then any passive fish you add later may get bullied.

Sound like you are off to a good start. Good luck and keep us updated!

littlemutt · 11-21-2005, 06:36 PM

i've added 1 fire shrimp, 1 pistol shrimp, 2 emerald crabs, 1 procelan crab, and 6 snails. i've also added two zoanthids and two small ricordia's. these have all been added in the last two weeks.
i took new water tests last night and got theses readings:

ph 2.8
ammonia: 0.25
nitrate : 0
nitrite : 0

the ammonia reading is up, is that due to the additions? and is that a problem? do i need to do anything or will it go down by itself? one problem i'm having is with feeding the 2 shrimp, i got some frozen meaty seafoods - 4 types and this is where i am having trouble, i bought a plastic clip with some plastic mesh designed to hold the frozen food but it doesn't work well, when i put a piece of food in it it seems to work it's way out before it hits the bottom with food floating all over the tank. and if i'm lucky and get it down there the fire shrimp has no problem and he comes zooming out and grabs what he can, but the pistol shrimp who also comes running out doesn't seem to be able to deal with the mesh and i'm not sure he's getting anything, he usually will come out only once and then seems to give up where as the fire shrimp will make repeated trips and take as much back with him as he can. a lot of the food ends up floating around the tank which i know is not good, could this be the reason for the ammonia spike? does anyone have a better method of feeding these guys? also how do you figure out exactly how much to give them? i keep hearing to feed them what they will eat in 3 minutes but this doesn't seem to apply to these guys especially the pistol shrimp and when i add fish it would seem like the problem will grow worse for them. any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

also the algae is still a problem with a lot of film as well as hair algae
growing in one tank, which is the tank with the shrimps and crabs in it, the other is much better with just some algae on the glass and small amounts growing over some of the sand. is this pretty much normal or is it the result of the ammonia readings? i keep cleaning up what i can but it makes a mess in the tank with floating debri, etc. i keep seeing photos of other tanks and they seem to be algae free and crystal clear. am i doing something wrong here or does it just take time to work itself out? thanks for any input.

FragOutpost · 11-21-2005, 07:05 PM

I'm guessing you meant 8.2 instead of 2.8 for your ph. If so then that is good.
The elevated ammonia levels could be from the excessive food depending on how much you are feeding. I use a turkey baster for target feeding. I turn off all of the pumps so that the food doesn't scatter around the tank so quickly. Does the pistol shrimp have a burrow built? If so you can just use the turkey baster to target feed the burrow. Got any pics of the new shrimp? Have you considered getting a companion goby for the pistol shrimp?

Quote:

also how do you figure out exactly how much to give them? i keep hearing to feed them what they will eat in 3 minutes but this doesn't seem to apply to these guys especially the pistol shrimp

Start will small portions and slowly increase the amount. Over time you will figure out the correct amount. If there is food left over in the tank then you have probably fed too much.

Quote:

also the algae is still a problem with a lot of film as well as hair algae
growing in one tank, which is the tank with the shrimps and crabs in it, the other is much better with just some algae on the glass and small amounts growing over some of the sand. is this pretty much normal or is it the result of the ammonia readings?

Both of your tanks are plumbed together, right? Which means that they share the same water supply, but you also have different lighting on each tank. You posted earlier that you had a 96 watt 50/50 compact pc on one tank and a 64 watt 50/50 compact pc on the other right? How old is the bulb on the tank with the algae issues? Which lighting is on the tank with the algae problem? You could easily test whether it is the lighting that is causing the problem by switching the lights from one tank to another. Then if the same algae begins to grow in the other tank and decreases in the original tank then you will know that your problem is the lighting.

D12monkey · 11-22-2005, 09:01 AM

I'm agreeing with Frag.... The algae issue looks like it could be from the lighting. Did you buy the fixtures and bulbs new? Try a swap of lighting and see what happens. Most bulbs have a lifespan of a year or less before they fall off their specturm. Once this happens it facilitates the algae growth.

littlemutt · 11-24-2005, 12:31 AM

both light fixtures are new with new bulbs, the 64 watt is the one over the 24 gal nano cube which is the tank with the shrimp,crabs and most of the snails. the 96 watt is over the 20 gal cube that i built, that just has snails in it so far, i would try switching the lights but the 64 watt light is built into the hood of the nano cube and the whole top would have to come off ( not easy to remove ) and wouldn't really fit over the other tank. i was thinking of getting some additional lightning in the form of those new t-5 fixtures that can be daisy chained, do you guys think more lighting would help?
i took another ammonia reading and it was closer to 0 than 0.25 so i'm really getting confused here, i have the lights programed to stay on for 12 hours a day, is that to long? could this be the problem? i thought that the more light the bigger the algae problem. i'm amazed at how fast that stuff grows. i clean off the glass daily and by the next day it's back again - very frustrating. any other ideas to get it under control please let me know, at this point i'll try anything.
as far as the food goes i try to feed as little as possible and i use a net and try to remove any that goes uneatin or is floating around the tank. the fire shrimp is getting plenty of food but i'm not sure the pistol is, he works non-stop on his borrow which unfortunately is under the piled up rock, it's hard to tell where the entrance is as he keeps changing it. it's really neat tho watching him move all that sand around, he puts his 2 claws together and carries it out on top of them. he seems to work non-stop and i'm worrying that he's not getting anything to eat.i will get a turkey baster and try to feed him that way. i'd like to hire him to do some work around the yard, that guy is a hard worker.

FragOutpost · 11-24-2005, 08:58 AM

Two of the main factors that algae needs to sustain growth are light and nutrients. Without one or the other algae can not sustain such growth rates. Nutrients are usually in the form of nitrates and/or phosphates. Are you using RO/DI water? Have you started doing regular water changes? Is your skimmer working efficiently?

littlemutt · 11-30-2005, 10:34 PM

have been using ro water for the past 1 1/2 months, however i have not done any water changes just makeup water for evaporation. this has been runninng about 2 - 3 gals a week. should i do a water change and if so how much should i change? the algae is still there and the film algae over some of the rocks and sand seems to have gotten slightly worse in the tank with the livestock in it. the other tank which has only some zoas and snails seems a bit better although i still get brown algae on the glass.
i got a turkey baster today which i will start using, the pistol shrimp has a burrow now and is not digging as much so i hope he's finally picked a spot he likes. i bought an antenna goby today from my local lfs to keep him company, i hope that works out, i think he needs company. that is my first fish as i've been holding off til i got that algae thing under control. everything i have put in there seems to be doing well ( 6 snails , 1 hermit, 1 fire shrimp, 1 pistol shrimp, 2 emerald crabs, and 1 porcelain crab, although the later i have not seen since the day after i put him in so he may not be doing so good ). does it sound like i need to put more snails in there? i didn't want to overload it either, the refigium is a whole other story, i have red algae growing in there, not sure how all 3 areas can be so different seeing as how they are all connected.
i am going to try and post some more pics and see if i have that figured out, would like to get them down to normal size. thanks for your continued input.

littlemutt · 12-01-2005, 12:46 AM

if anyone has any reasonable priced frags for sale i might be interested. would like to get something in my setup, local visit to lfs's in my area have shown me that i can't afford to do much at there prices and i figure frags will grow. please answer here or e-mail me - thanks

FragOutpost · 12-01-2005, 06:45 PM

Go ahead and start changing about 10-20% of the water every week or two. Ideally it is better to change smaller amounts of water frequently than it is to change large amounts of water infrequently. Try changing out 2-3 gallons every day for a week or two. Are you running any carbon? How many total gallons do you have?

You should easily be able to sustain 20-30 snails if not more between all of the tanks.

Is the turkey baster helping with feeding the pistol shrimp?
Has the pistol shrimp began to bond with the goby yet?
You'll have to post a pic some time of the two.

What is the resolution of the photos you posted earlier? If your photos are 300 dpi then they will display very big on a monitor. For displaying photos online make sure that your photos are 72 dpi. Just a thought. Hope this helps.

littlemutt · 12-03-2005, 04:01 AM

i will begin doing water changes, will try doing 2-4 gallons per day til i get at least 20% changed, the total water volume between the 2 tanks and the refugium is approximately 62 gals (20 - 24 -18 ) minus sand and rock. i am running carbon in the 24 gal nano-cube and purigen in nylon bags in the refugium input.

have a total of 10 snails which i will increase to 25 or so as soon as i can.

haven't really used the turkey baster yet as i've come up with a way that kind of works. i stick a piece of food inside the entrance to the pistol's burrow and within a second he comes to get it. if he likes it he pulls it in, if he doesn't he just shoves it back out, it's actually pretty funny to watch him. am trying to get a pic of him but he doesn't come out in the open for more than a second at any given time. i wish he would stop all the excavation as each day he changes things around. when i put the antenna goby in he sat on one of the rocks for about 2 hours not doing much of anything but as soon as i stopped watching for awhile he was right at the pistols burrow and hasn't left since. when the shrimp comes out with a load of sand he merely moves aside then goes right back to halfway in the entrance, for me this is all new and it's pretty neat. after feeding i turn the pumps back on and whatever left over food there is starts moving around the tank and each time it goes by the goby he darts out and grabs a piece, i've noticed that he might eat the first 2 or 3 pieces then when he grabs the next piece he'll take it into the burrow and come right back out, he will eat a couple of more pieces then do the same thing. from what i can gather he must be bringing it to the pistol, i was amazed at how fast they teamed up and it has also solved the problem of leftover food in the tank.

i have a question that i'm not sure you can answer, does the saltwater have any effect on my septic system? i've been dumping it down the drain and am not sure if that's ok. would hate to create a problem in that area.

thanks for all the help

FragOutpost · 12-03-2005, 03:55 PM

That is great that your goby and pistol shrimp teamed up so quickly. It must be great watching the two together.

As long as you keep consistent with the water changes and carbon, and ensure that your parameters are all in check then the algae should diminish in due time.

As for the salt water harming the septic system, I think it should be ok. I'm on a city connection so I can't tell you with for sure certainity but I don't think you should have any problems. I usually drain my used water into the yard.

Just in case you ever decide to culture micro algae, never pour a Nanochloropsus culture down the drain, as it can live in both freshwater and saltwater and could possibly contaminate local waterways.

littlemutt · 03-02-2006, 05:49 AM

it's been awhile since i posted anything for a number of reasons but i haven't given up and have been maintaining my tanks. my problem is the same- algae! it seems no matter what i do i'm still plagued with it. i tested tonight and got the following results:

nitrates - 0
nitrites - 0
alkalinity - 180
ph - 8.4
ammonia - 0 - .25 (somewhere in between - test strip a bit hard to read)

i think with these readings i shouldn't still be getting all this algae but i am, i have tried a number of things to reduce it to no avail. if anybody has any suggestions please let me know.

what has disappointed me even more is when i tried to add coral to the tanks which i bought on seperate occasions - the 3 different corals which looked extremely healthy all 3 died within 2 days or less. each was $50 or more so it was upsetting, my lfs gave me a discount after the first one but with the next two i didn't even go back and tell him they had died, considering how healthy they had looked i feel the problem is on this end. also the frag that you had so kindly sent me died immediately, and now i'm not so sure it was the cold weather that did it. it's hard for me to understand because the stuff i do have in the tank which i had gotten from e-bay as frags are doing well ( 4 zoos and 2 recordia ) they have grown quite a bit and seem to be happy. i feed them plankton maybe twice a week, i hope is the right thing to do.

i want to get some more corals but right now i'm afraid to considering my track record. can anyone suggest what i might be doing wrong? the 3 that i had bought where 1 mushroom covered rock and 2 ancoria's (spelling),the lfs had said they where fairly hardy and easy to grow and should do well. any coral suggestions would appreciated. thanks

FragOutpost · 03-02-2006, 09:45 AM

Welcome back littlemutt. Sorry to hear that you still have algae issues. Are you using test strips for all of your measurments? Ammonia is very toxic even in small amounts. Nitrifying bacteria should normally convery ammonia to nitrite reasonably quickly. If your nitrates are at 0 then that doesn't sound right either. It is normal to have some nitrates in your tank. If in fact your nitrates are at 0 and your ammonia is detectable then something is wrong with your tanks ability to process waste. Please take a water sample to your LFS and have them test the water and compare your results.

Have you added any antibiotics or medications to your tank? Is there any chance that any chemicals could have gotten in your tank?

What about your make up water? Are you using ro/di water? I think you already mentioned this so after I post this I will go back and re-read this entire thread.

FragOutpost · 03-02-2006, 10:26 AM

ok after re-reading the thread I see that you are using ro/di water. How often are you doing water changes and how much are you changing at one time?

I would stop feeding the plankton and cut back on the amount of food you are feeding the fish and shrimp to only a few times per week until your algae issues come under control. Try to monitor everything that you put into your tanks as the nutrients have to come from somewhere. It sounds like you might be feeding too much food too often. This might be the source of your ammonia if there is uneaten food decaying everyday. But still your nitrates normally should be measurable in a new system like yours.

Can you post a pic of the brown algae again so we can compare it with previous photos? How is the refugium doing? You added some chaeto right?

I would not add anymore corals until your current issues are resolved. What is your acclimation process for adding new corals? After previous corals had died did you perform any water changes?

Are you still running carbon? If so, how often are you changing it?