just getting started - Page 2 - Frag Outpost Forums - Coral Propagation and Reef Aquarium Forums

FragOutpost · 10-06-2005, 09:25 AM

Your ph will swing from being low in the morning to higher before your lights turn off. I'm guessing that you are leaving your lights off during the cycle so your ph is not too bad. I wouldn't worry about it too much for now.

If you need to raise it later - http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

This will be a good read for you also to help you understand more about calcium and alkalinity - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Your ammonia should spike within the first week or two, immediately followed by a nitrite spike. When I cycled my 75 gallon I put in my sand, some live rock, and filled it with water and basically just forgot about it for 2 months. After 2 months had passed I started doing some water changes and then I tested to ensure that I was ready for livestock. The point is to just be patient and remember the famous quote "The only thing that happens fast in this hobby is disaster."

littlemutt · 10-08-2005, 02:02 AM

is it possible to add live plants before tank has cylced and would that help it cycle? wanted to get some plants and add them to the refigium so that by the time i add livestock they will be somewhat established. there are vendors on e-bay who sell several different types, any suggestions as to what types of plants to get and is that the best place to get them?

FragOutpost · 10-08-2005, 12:09 PM

I don't think you would have too many problems adding some plants during the cycle. Most plants are pretty hardy. I would recommend chaetomorpha, aka spaghetti algae. Check around for local reef clubs in your area. Most people trim back their macro algae from time to time as a way to export nutrients. I also recommend floridapets.com for macro.

D12monkey · 10-08-2005, 05:59 PM

I'd be more than happy to ship you some if you want. Instead of paying floridapets.com or some other company...

littlemutt · 10-09-2005, 04:20 PM

damn! i just bid and won a bunch on e-bay. i'm always so impatient. thanks so much for the offer, appreciate it. hope what i did works out, just wanted to get something live in my tanks. thanks again

littlemutt · 10-09-2005, 08:49 PM

would it be possible to add some polyps to my set-up at this time. do my tanks need to be cylced before i add anything like that? i know i'm pushing things but if there's no harm i'd like to add them.

D12monkey · 10-09-2005, 09:28 PM

I wouldn't recommend it. Even though polyps are hardy they prob wouldn't last inside the tank during cycle. The reason being is when you cycle the swing in ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are extreme and usual can kill off most organisms in the tank. Damsels have been know to survive the swings but it is very stressing on the animal and can be even construded as animal abuse depending on who you talk to.

littlemutt · 10-11-2005, 06:05 PM

recieved 50lbs of live rock today from aquarium arts and was very impressed - great rock, lots of colors, no smell at all, and it even looks like some things are growing on it. after all the horror stories i have read about buying live rock over the internet i was a bit concerned about what i would get. what a relief this stuff is great, would recommend this place to anyone looking for live rock. prices where very reasonable, and it couldn't have been packaged any better, it's a shame shipping costs are so high or i would order some more, 50 lbs doesn't go as far as i thought it would and i could use at least another 30-40 lbs, wish i could afford it right now but if i want to keep on living i'm gonna have to hold off. wife took one look at the rock and said $400 for that!!!, i don't think she appreciates this hobby to much so far but i'm hoping that will change once some livestock has been added. any suggestions on how you get your other half to swallow all this expense? or is the divorice finalized yet?

one small problem is that 1 piece of rock is a little to big, is it possible to break it into smaller pieces? not sure how to do that but don't want to damage the rock to much. anybody have any luck with that? also do i keep the lights on now so that all that beautiful corraline alge keeps growing? getting excited now that it's starting to look like a reef but want to do the right things

FragOutpost · 10-11-2005, 06:24 PM

Great! Glad to hear your rock arrived in good shape without any funky smell. That is always a good sign.

As for the wife...Well, forgiveness is usually easier to get than permission.

Luckily my better half is pretty supportive when it comes to buying stuff for the tank, just not when it comes time to do the maintenance.

You will probably need to bust out a hammer and chisel to get the most accurate break on the rock so that you end up with a couple of big rocks instead of a bunch of small rocks. Don't forget the saftey glasses.

Coraline is photosynthetic and will need light to grow, but is very hardy and can sustain lower levels of light until your tank has cycled and has corals.

Try to position the rock so that you have as little as possible touching the sand. The more sand that is exposed the better. It will help with water flow and reducing the amount of deterious that gets trapped. One suggestion is to get some 2"-3" pvc and cut it to the same length as your sand bed is deep, and use these to set your rocks on. Cut them slightly short so they do not stick out of the sand bed. This will keep your rocks from settling and sinking into the sand. Most stuff on the rocks will die, like coraline, sponges, etc, if buried in the sand.

littlemutt · 10-11-2005, 06:41 PM

one thing i forgot to mention, am i talking to much and asking to many questions?, i don't want to hog all your time and space and overstep my welcome. i can't tell you how much i appreciate all the advice, it's helped so much but i don't want to overdo it.
please let me know when enough is enough i won't be offended. my wife never has a problem letting me know so i'm used to it. thanks!

FragOutpost · 10-11-2005, 06:50 PM

Absolutely not. We are all here to learn.

Please, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm sure we can learn from everyones experiences. That's why this forum is here!

littlemutt · 10-15-2005, 04:01 PM

took water tests today and got these readings:

PH -8.0
amonia -0.25
nitrate - 10
nitrite - 0.25

are these levels ok? tanks have been running about 12 days now with LS from the beginning and LR added about 5 days ago, do these readings seem normal and do they show if the tanks are cylcing? these are the only tests i have, and i'm not sure if i need others or are these the improtant ones?

i know i'm not supposed to keep the lights on but i find it hard not to. i just sit there and stare at the rocks hoping to see some form of life. finally today i did, not sure what it was - grey armor plated looking creature about 1/4" long that could move very fast. i've heard alot of different names like pods, and such and was wondering if this could this be one of them? i know this most seem stupid to you guys but it was kinda exciting for me just knowing there was life in there.

FragOutpost · 10-15-2005, 04:16 PM

Do you mean that nitrites are 10, and nitrates are 0.25?
If so then those test results sound about right.

Soon your ammonia should be zero, your nitrites should begin to fall, and your nitrates should start increasing .

Follow this link and scroll down a little ways to the image of an aquarium and press the play button for an animation of the cycle process.

Is this the critter you saw? (Photo from melevsreef)

If so then it is an amphipod and is very desirable. They will mostly appear at night. I find myself sometimes spending more time watching the pods than the other stuff in the tank. They are pretty cool little critters. It is entertaining to watch them fight over food too.

littlemutt · 10-19-2005, 11:45 PM

thanks for the pic, it may be what i have although mine seems to be a lot grayer in color so i can't be sure. against advice i have been leaving the lights on for approx. 12 hrs a day until the other day. i started noticing this brown ctton like stuff growing all over both tanks, is this some kind of algae? have herad the term brown algae and figure this must be it. have left the lights off for the last 2 days and it seems to have helped. is there anything i should be doing now like an algae remover or should i just leave the lights off and hope that it clears up?

i may have confused the two - nitrites and nitrates and will check again in a couple of days. hope those readings are in line for this stage of the cycling.

have taken some pics but every time i try to attach to this tread a small pop-up blocker sign appears in the lower right hand corner of my puter screen. i cannot find the source of the pop-up blocker and was wondering if anybody has experienced this problem. would appreciate any help getting rid of it if anyone has any ideas

FragOutpost · 10-20-2005, 07:32 AM

There are a few different types of "brown" algae. You are most likely experiencing a bloom of diatoms or dinoflagellates, but could also possibly be some form of cyanobacteria. Cutting the lights back to 4 hours a day or less will limit the growth of any algae. The algae is growing becase of the excess nutrients produced during the tank cycle. For the next couple of months you will most likely go through various stages of algae blooms. This is normal and your tank will require time to reach a balance. If indeed you do currently have a diatom bloom then I would not worry about it too much as it should pass within a week or so and be overtaken with another type of undesirable algae.

I would definetly advise against the use of any chemical or antibiotic algae remover. Products like this will likely do more harm than good.

Controlling nuisance algae in the long term is a battle that must be fought on many fronts.

The use of reverse osmosis/deionized water,
running activated carbon,
growing competing macro algae in a refugium,
the use of herbivores including fish, crabs, snails,
protein skimming,
maintaining correct levels of ph & alkalinity,
removal of deterious,
regular water changes

are just a few ways to limit the growth of undesirable algae.

There are two ways to post images in a thread.

1. click on the "Manage Attachments" button and a pop up window will open allowing you to upload up to 5 images at once. Your pop up blocker is probably blocking this window. You should have an option somewhere that says "Allow pop ups from this website". If so, then select this option. What browser are you using?

2. you can include images that have already been posted on the web by using the "Insert Image" icon and providing the url of the image.

If you are still having problems you can email the images to me and I'll be happy to post them for you.

Hope this helps.

littlemutt · 10-31-2005, 06:00 PM

thanks for the info, not sure what type i have so i'm going to try posting pics again! this should be fun as i haven't had any luck yet. i got as far as uploading them but i was told the files where to big. i'm using a nikon d70 camera and have reduced the resolution as per instructions and am hoping this will work. the quality may not be that good but it's a learning experience for me. i've taken some close-ups of the alge i have and would appreciate any comments. it's very strange, when i had been leaving the lights on this stuff started growing in both tanks, when you advised me to turn the lights off i did and the alge started going away in the first tank but in the second it seemed to get worse and still is after 2 weeks with lights off. also in the first tank there seems to be some brown stuff growing on the live rock and if i turn the lights on for awhile these little blue shiny dots appear on then, they look cool but i'm not sure what these are either (good or bad) they are not in the second tank at all. any help will greatly appreciated.

littlemutt · 10-31-2005, 06:09 PM

guess the pics didn't work out, not sure what i did wrong. i used the lowest resolution setting on my camera, is there a way to reduce the size of these photos? this is frustrating!

forgot to mention that in the refigium neither of the alge's that i mentioned before are growing there, but there is a red agle growing but not enough to concern me. if all 3 (the 2 tanks and the refigium) are connected why are they all different?

FragOutpost · 10-31-2005, 07:04 PM

It is best to use some sort of software to compress/crop/etc. your photos.
Try searching google for free photo editing software.

As far as your algae is concerned I will guess that it looks most like either lyngbya or hincksia. Plus it looks as though you have an diatom bloom. Don't worry though as it will all work itself out eventually. It is all part of the cycle. The best option right now is to try to manually remove as much as the brown stringy stuff as you can every week or so and this will help to export some of the nutrients from the tank. Also make sure to use a skimmer and add some herbivores.

Do you have any snails or crabs yet? If not then I would get some to start with. They will probably not eat much of the brown stringy algae but they should help keep other forms of algae under control as your tank finishes the cycling process.

Are you using reverse osmosis or deionized water?

littlemutt · 10-31-2005, 07:29 PM

i am using photoshop elements for importing photos from camera, not sure if they provide the ability to compress photos, i also have nikon view,kodak easy share and mgi photosuite software in my computer but i've found that it gets way to confusing using different brands of software, i think for me i just have to stick with one and try and learn it throughly. i'm trying to do that with photoshop, if anyone out there uses it too i'd be grateful for any tips.
have no snails or crabs yet, thought i was supposed to wait for tanks to cylce first before adding them? what would be the best types for me to start with? any sites recommended for purcashing some? or am i better off getting them locally?
have started purchasing ro water from my local lfs, but at 1 dollar a gallon i can see the cost's are going to add up quickly. i have looked in local supermarkets but they don't seem to carry ro water. i was looking at a site that you have mentioned in here called mel's reef and i noticed that he sells an ro unit for about $ 150, does anyone know if this is a good one? the ones i've seen in catalogs where over $200 and had less canisters. money is an issue and if i can convince wife i'd like to be sure i'm getting something that works well.

FragOutpost · 10-31-2005, 07:50 PM

I have not used photoshop elements before but I do use photoshop 6.0 regularly. Look along the top and click on "Image->Image Size". This should open a popup window where you can change the physical dimensions of the image. 550 or 600 pixels wide usually works well. After that click "File->Save for Web". This will compress the image for display on the web. Then save wherever you want. Like I said, i haven't used PS elements before, but I would assume that the basic functions are the same. Try it and let me know if that works for you.

As far as snails and crabs, the next time you are at the LFS grab a couple of astreas and maybe a couple of blue leg hermits or scarlets. Acclimate them to your tank and give them a week or so. If they are surviving reasonably well them get some more.

$150 for a 5 stage Ro/Di unit is not a bad deal. I paid more than that for my 4 stage unit. Do not get less than a 50 gpd unit. 100 gpd is better. A flush kit is recommended to lengthen the life of your RO membrane. I will sometimes get replacement prefilters and carbon block filters at my local Lowes or Home Depot which are usually moderately priced.
Most units are virtually the same. So go with the best price you can find for a comparable 4-5 stage 50-100gpd ro/di unit.