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Old 05-07-2006, 09:05 PM   #1
jinenon
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Default wanting to try the epoxy propagation

Hello all. I have posted an introduction in the "new to reef keeping" forum if you would like to see my first post. Outside of the first problems i asked in that forum, i have some questions on the epoxy vs. rubber bands vs. superglue propagaion methods. i have a large green mushroom colony, a large (various type) zoo colony and i was intrigued by some of the suggestions about propagating and had to ask a couple questions. I bought some marine putty epoxy today and it says it takes an hour to "cure". How do you do this with a frag of zoo's or a single shroom you want to transfer(I have a floating shroom thats doing great just temp attaching to anything he can) to a new piece of live rock?
If you use super glue to attach a shroom to a piece of live rock doesnt that damage the base of the shroom?
Im just really excited about the knowledge in this group and want to get to a complete looking reef without killing everything i have. All input is appreciated greatly.....Thanks guys, jesse
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Old 05-07-2006, 09:48 PM   #2
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The methos and materials used to attach a frag to some rubble vary according to what kind of coral you are propagating. Using superglue or epoxy on mushrooms or soft corals doesn't usually work very well because shrooms and soft corals (especially shrooms) will produce a slime or mucus coating which will prevent the adhesive from forming a good bond and usually the shroom will come free. Shrooms are best left in a pile of rubble in an area of low flow so that they can attach on their own. You can also use some mesh and rubberbands to secure them to a rock until they attach. Once the shroom has attached to a small piece of rubble you can then use superglue or epoxy to attach the rubble to a larger rock. Shrooms are very hardy and will not be damaged by the superglue or epoxy but will most likely slime over and float away.

Zoanthids can be propagated using one of three methods.
1. Use a hammer and chisel and physically break apart the rock that they are attached to.
2. Use a razor blade and peel up the zoanthids at the base and attach them to some rubble.
3. Place some rubble around the base of the zoanthid colony and wait for the polyps to spread out and grow onto the rubble.
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:35 PM   #3
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Default thanks again frag

Thanks for the help on the shrooms. I understand how to propagate but i am still unsure about attatching the frag to another piece once the shroom has taken hold. The only epoxy i could find says it takes an hour to "cure". How do you accomplish this without killing the Shroom?

I also have a frag of zoos that keep getting plowed by my snails. Can you use the epoxy or superglue at the base of the zoo to reattach it to the frag?

Thanks,
Jesse
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:17 PM   #4
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I have never tried the epoxy. But I can tell you the gel superglue works great. I have used this a couple of times now. You just have to leave it out of the water for a couple of minutes with the gel superglue.
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:29 PM   #5
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What kind of epoxy do you have?
There are basically two kinds of epoxy. The first comes in a clay like stick that has an inner core that is a different color that the outer layer. This stuff is great to use for mounting frags in the tank and most epoxies of this type have a working time of about 10-20 minutes before it gets becomes hard and is no longer able to be molded. Just break off a piece and mix with your fingers until it is uniform in color.

The second type of epoxy is a gel type that comes in a big syringe like applicator where the two different types of gel meet and become one when you squeeze it out. I have never tried this stuff before because I have yet to find some that says on the package that it is suitable for potable water. I have heard of others using it before with no problems.

So to answer your question...Generally if I can take the item to be glued out of the tank then I will use superglue to make the bond. If not then I use the epoxy. If you have a shroom that is attached to some rubble then just use some superglue to glue the rubble to a larger rock. Shrooms are extremely hardy and will most likely not be bothered by any epoxy. If you have some loose zoanthid polyps then use some superglue on the foot of the zoanthid and glue it to some rubble. Just make sure that you do not get any glue on the head or mouth of the polyp. It will likely die if you do. Tweezers will make this job easier.

Another thing to remember when using the clay like epoxy is that large amounts of it will make your skimmer go crazy so be sure to keep an eye on your skimmer for 24 hours after using the epoxy and turn it down if necessary.

Hope this helps!
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:31 PM   #6
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The downside to the superglue gel is that once it comes in contact with water it almost cures instantly. If only someone would invent some superglure that works underwater!?!
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:55 PM   #7
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ok i tried the epoxy yesterday and its holding my live rock pieces pretty good. The kind i used is "Pc-Marine epoxy putty". It is the clay type that you have to knead then cure for an hour. I could not find anything at any store that actually said "safe for potable/drinking water". Although, this epoxy said its "safe for water and stock tanks, fish boxes and pools". So, I'm assuming its safe for fish although i have not put the liverock frags back in the tank yet til i heard from you guys.
Thanks for the input on the superglue. I think im gonna go for that since it has a short cure time and i am assuming you dont take a risk of killing a zoo or shroom because of leaving it out of water too long waiting for the glue to cure. BTW- how long does it take for super glue to cure before you can put your frag back in the tank without harming other inhabitants?

*The picture below* The white dot zoos are what i want to transfer to the new piece of live rock i just pieced together.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:58 PM   #8
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sorry forgot the pic
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:09 PM   #9
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Most epoxies are safe to use. The kind that I use I get from lowes and it specifically says safe to use for potable water. I'm sure that the stuff that you have is fine for use in your tank. You can leave corals out of the tank for quite a while without adverse effects. Some reefs in nature are actually exposed for several hours at low tide in direct sunlight. Superglue will usually form a good bond after a few minutes and then can be placed back in the tank. I would guess around three to five minutes. You could probably leave mushrooms out of water for at least an hour without any problems. Not that I recommend it but you shouldn't have any problems.
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Old 05-13-2006, 04:19 AM   #10
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Thank you "Frag" and everyone else. You guys are a well of knowledge and I appreciate everything you have done for me.

Jesse
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Old 05-16-2006, 08:01 PM   #11
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Thanks for all your help guys. I got to try alot of the methods to frag all at once and i will keep you posted as to what does the best. I did the shotglass trick with some shrooms, did the epoxy with some live rock, did the superglue with some zoos. So far the mushrooms look pretty good. One larger set of zoos with superglue are doing fantastic and the other smaller frag i may have used too much glue cuz they havent come out to "sun" since i did it. But overall its working better than i expected. Thanks for the info for my first initiation to propagating. I love this forum!!
Jesse
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Old 05-16-2006, 08:02 PM   #12
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