Basic info - Frag Outpost Forums - Coral Propagation and Reef Aquarium Forums

jinenon · 05-07-2006, 09:44 PM

First off, i'd like to say hello to everyone. I stumbled on this forum the other night and have already learned alot. I'm glad to see a site like this with so many helpful readers. I am new to the reef tank but have done damn near everything there is to do with fresh and salt (fish only and fowlr) tanks and i have purchased a couple frags and have my tank cycled and established to start getting serious with the coral. I have a few questions that might seem stupid but things have changed alot since i had my tank set up before. The first and foremost is the quality of lighting. I have a 55 gal tank. My first major purchase was a nova 216 watt hood. It has 3-10k bulbs and only one actinic. I have two timers for these but im wondering if i shouldnt get another actinic or 50/50 bulb for one set. Next, and this is probably the stupidest thing i have done so far....i left the undergravel filter with 2 powerheads in with 75 lbs crushed coral and 50 lbs. crushed puca shells. Should i take about half of that out including the undergravel filter? Is that why my ammonia stays above .1 ppm? I also have an aquaclear 70 over-the-back filter. The only problem i am having right now is that the ammonia level in my tank hangs around .25 ppm and i have had the tank set up for about 8 months. Nitrite and Nitrate is 0 and my Mushrooms and Zoos and even a condy anemone are doing great but my fish keep scratching themselves on things all the time. I thought my coral beauty had ich but within 2 days he looked fine (other than scratching still) and my clown wasnt acting ok but has made a full recovery (he was really immobile and his dorsal fins were splitting). My yellow tang, hawkfish and damsels have never had issues. I have some very large snails and about 7 hermit crabs however, i have a major algea problem. When i first got my hood i was leaving the light on for about 10 hours/day. I decreased it to about 8 hours/day and that helped alot with the algea for about a week. Now im getting mass amounts of green and brown algea again and the hermits seem to not want to clean and just sit and look at things all the time. Is that an ammonia problem that cause invertabrates to react that way? That will be all for now. Thanks for any help you vets can give me!! I'll be on alot.....love this site....Jesse

FragOutpost · 05-07-2006, 10:16 PM

First of all let me start by saying welcome to Frag Outpost!

What kind of corals do you plan on keeping? 216 watts of T5HO in a 55 gallon will be enough to keep pretty much anything including some sps corals in the upper half of your tank. If you want your tank to be more blue then add another actinic bulb or a 50/50. I would definitely take out the undergravel filter. Cruched coral is IMO not the best substrate for a reef aquarium. The particle size is so big that it prevents denitrifying bacteria from growing and will allow detrious to settle. I have seen people keep successful reef tanks before using crushed coral but they vacuumed it frequently to remove detrious. Are you familiar with how anaerobic bacteria processes nitrates? Most people use a sand be for a couple of reasons, 1. asthetics and/or 2. process nitrates. In order to process nitrates, anaerobic bacteria needs a place void of oxygen to colonize which means at least a 4" sandbed of fine grain sand. Another benefit of using fine grain sand is the amount of micro fauna that lives within the sand. Here is a great resource for information on deep sand beds - http://www.ronshimek.com/Deep%20Sand%20Beds.htm
In the aquaclear filter you have running are you using the foam filter or just carbon? I would advise against using a foam filter because it will produce aerobic bacteria (the kind that create nitrates) in large quantities. If you have a constant ammonia reading then that means that nutrients are decaying. This is most likely in the form of fish food or fish poo being trapped within the grains of the crushed coral. My advice to you would be to completely remove the undergravel filter and crushed coral and add 4" of sand if you are interested in the benefits of a deep sand bed. If you choose to go with a deep sand bed then I would wait a couple of months before adding any corals in order to give the bacteria some time to colonize. Bare bottom is another good choice but it has its pros and cons as well. If you choose to go bare bottom then I would get some cutting board material to lay on the bottom of the tank. Hope this helps and I hope I did a reasonably good job at anwering your questions. Let us know what you decide to do from here and if there is anything that we can do to help.

jinenon · 05-07-2006, 10:46 PM

Heres some pics of the better half of my tank. I appreciate the input on the undergravel filter. I kind of knew i needed to pull that out before i go any further. As far as the sand bed, I had read that you have to change the sand every 6 mnths if you use that as a substrate. Thats why i was afraid of attempting that.

Yes i do have the foam insert with the activated carbon in the OTB filter. I havent noticed a high nitrate as of yet but i have only had that filter for about 2-3 months and i clean that foam regularly. But, if you suggest, i will remove that.

I noticed that you said that crushed coral "isn't the best" substrate instead of "dude, that needs to go" : ) After looking at my pics, could i get by with pulling half of it plus the undergravel filter out? I kind of like the look of the puca shells mixed with the dolomite but it seems to get tons of algea really fast. Does sand do that too or is sand easier to keep clear of the brown and green algea.

I'll leave it at that for now, Thanks again for your help!!! Jesse

FragOutpost · 05-07-2006, 10:59 PM

Most people that you ask will say "Dude, pull out the crushed coral".

If you do decide to keep the large particle substrate the just be sure to vacuum the detrious just like you would vacuum the gravel in a freshwater tank. Large particle substrate allows fish food and fish poo to get trapped and decay.

If you choose to go with a sand bed then you should get a minimum of 5 years before you have to change it, most likely longer. Changing the sandbed every 6 months would disrupt the anaerobic bacterial colonies which is the main reason for having a deep sand bed. I would say that you need at least 3-6 months before your sand bed becomes mature, biologically speaking.

Algae will still grow on a sand bed especially diatoms during the first 6 months. After that with regular maintenance including water changes to reduce nutrient buildup and adequate flow your sand bed should be algae free for the most part.

jinenon · 05-07-2006, 11:07 PM

Any comments regarding the pics? lol i want your honest opinion heh : )

FragOutpost · 05-07-2006, 11:12 PM

It appears like you have some green cyanobacteria. Your best defense is to scrub each rock with a toothbrush and siphon your substrate. Then start an aggressive water change routine to get the nutrients under control as well as removing the foam filter. There is not much in the line of herbivores that will eat that stuff so manual removal is your best bet plus nutrient reduction. Are you using RO/DI water? And add more flow!

FragOutpost · 05-07-2006, 11:12 PM

What temp is the tank usually at?

Teeka01 · 05-08-2006, 12:05 AM

Welcome to Frag Outpost!

jinenon · 05-11-2006, 05:45 PM

I keep the tank right at 78

Symbiosis · 05-11-2006, 07:52 PM

You didn't mention a protien skimmer. With your fish load and desire to have a system with more corals, IMO a skimmer is a must. It should also help with your algae/ammonia problem. Also, do you use RO water or tap water for changes and top off's? If your tap water is high in dissolved matter, algae can grow pretty quickly. I think your best course of action is to remove the undergravel and substrate, put down an inch of oolitic aragonite if you just want it for looks (4" if you want it for nitrate reduction, which I don't think is needed if your nitrates are already 0), clean all the bacteria/algae you can, do some water changes and wait for things to settle down. I say remove your current substrate as it's large grain size traps more detrious than the fine oolitic. I think this will help with your ammonia problem at the same time removing the algae/bacteria's source of food.

Oh, and for a skimmer, the Aqua C Remora is the best hang on you can get in todays market. Might cost a little more than say a Seaclone, but its performance will more than make up for its price.

FragOutpost · 05-11-2006, 08:37 PM

Doh...A skimmer is a must have as well as RO/DI water. Buy a larger skimmer than you think you need in case you ever upgrade your tank.

jinenon · 05-12-2006, 09:00 PM

Again, thanks guys. I'm learning alot. I have recently discovered that i might need a protein skimmer (thanks for the suggestions). I really "dont have the time/too lazy" to make a once a week water change every week. I think that is the root of most of my ammonia/algea problems. Plus the UG filter.
I use regular tap water (city water) for refills/changes. The ph seems to be perfect straight out of the tap and the RO units seem to be a big hassel so i never really read up too much about them. As far as the undergravel filter, that is the first problem i want to deal with and would like some input on how to do this without killing everything. I have a 29 gallon tank that i could use to transfer everything to while i redo the 55 but its not setup and i would need to cycle it plus i dont have strong enough lighting to use on it unless i use the 48" light with some kind of hovering setup. Thanks again guys

FragOutpost · 05-12-2006, 10:12 PM

A good protein skimmer and a RO/DI unit is one of the best investments you can make for your tank. You will likely battle algae until you get those 2 key components.

jinenon · 05-13-2006, 05:22 AM

I will start reading up and getting comments on skimmers. Any suggestions about removing the UG filter and not killing everything i have would be great.
Thanks guys,

Jesse

jinenon · 05-13-2006, 05:29 AM

The aqua c remora skimmer is way higher than i'd like to pay. Any suggestions for a price range of $50-$100?

Symbiosis · 05-13-2006, 12:22 PM

If I were going to remove an undergravel filter, I would transfer all my live rock and livestock to a rubbermaid that would hold it all with water from the tank. Smaller containers would work to, but keep all the live stock you can in one, that way the container with the livestock has a powerhead to keep it oxygenated and a heater. Then just take out the UG, and wait for the cloud that will result from disturbing the substrate to settle. If you were going to replace your substrate, this would be the best time to do so. Put the water you took out back in then place the liverock back in. You might want to reacclimate your livestock to the tank before putting them in, but this probably wont be that nessecary.

Any skimmer you'll find in the $50-100 dollar range is more of a gimmick than a true workhorse. Seaclones can work, but usually require mods to even get them to do much. Also these already cost over $100. It might seem expensive, but it's well worth it. I am not currently running a skimmer on my 20 gallon as im moving to a larger system, but I think having the very fine, sugar sized substrate help keep my ammonia at zero by not allowing detious to become trapped. If you changed out your substrate and vaccumed out any bits of detrious you could see when you did water changes, you should be able to keep your ammonia at 0 untill you save enough up to get a good skimmer, if you so choose. Another option is to look around on forums for people selling used equipment. Not to steal this sites thunder or anything, but over at reefcentral.com, they have a forum for selling and trading equipment. Aqua C remora's go for $100-130 shipped to your location all the time.